Comments on: What’s Wrong with the Trafficking Crusade? TIP Report Revisited http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/whats-wrong-with-the-trafficking-crusade from Laura Agustín Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:25:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Kris http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/whats-wrong-with-the-trafficking-crusade#comment-819 Kris Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:57:52 +0000 http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/?p=113#comment-819 The article makes that impression. Especially this part:" <i>“But sex for money is disgusting and degrading; no one should have to do it.” And should anyone have to clean toilets all day? Risk being maimed in unsafe fireworks factories? Should children have to spend their lives in lightless tunnels of mines, or women have to remain married to men who are cruel to them? The world is full of things we wish we could eradicate - but isn’t starvation the first of them? Why is there no equivalent moral furor over hideous poverty? Are we meant to believe that sex without love is worse than military violence? All over the world, selling sex pays better than most jobs readily available to women, and many do not believe it is the worst possible experience they can have.</i> You can go on like that forever. For almost all jobs in the world except one there are jobs which are worse. It is obviously better to be a prostitute forced by a pimp servicing 20 clients a day, compared to working in a Chinese mine. Many thousands die in the Chinese mines each year. At least you don't die as a prostitute (at least the probability is a lot smaller). So obviously it is better to be a sex slave than a Chinese miner. So obviously being a sex slave isn't the worst situation. What clients could do to improve the condition of coerced prostitutes? Stop visiting these prostitutes and only visit the voluntary ones. That means no more money for those who exploit them, and no more incentive to force women in prostitution. That is very difficult indeed, and I am really pessimistic. I am very aware that prostitutes are extremely good at hiding their situation. Pimps are not always visible. The pimp could sit at home watching TV while the prostitute goes to the brothel on her own and make the impression that she works voluntarily. Coercion could happen outside the view of others. I have actually experienced such a situation. I visited a prostitute and her husband (who runs an escort agency) at their home (not to have sex by the way) to discuss these issues of how a client should see the difference. We had a very open discussion. The husband's opinion was that you couldn't make the distinction between forced and voluntary. The woman's opinion was that coercion and voluntariness lie very close to each other. She herself liked sex and liked her job. 3 years later she said that her husband forced her into prostitution for 9 years!!!! You understand the strange situation? I follow the news in the Netherlands closely and it is so striking that pimps (who use coercion and/or manipulation) still continue to place prostitutes in legal brothels. There are no signs that the problem is decreasing. The situation is really hopeless. The article makes that impression. Especially this part:”
“But sex for money is disgusting and degrading; no one should have to do it.” And should anyone have to clean toilets all day? Risk being maimed in unsafe fireworks factories? Should children have to spend their lives in lightless tunnels of mines, or women have to remain married to men who are cruel to them? The world is full of things we wish we could eradicate - but isn’t starvation the first of them? Why is there no equivalent moral furor over hideous poverty? Are we meant to believe that sex without love is worse than military violence? All over the world, selling sex pays better than most jobs readily available to women, and many do not believe it is the worst possible experience they can have.

You can go on like that forever. For almost all jobs in the world except one there are jobs which are worse. It is obviously better to be a prostitute forced by a pimp servicing 20 clients a day, compared to working in a Chinese mine. Many thousands die in the Chinese mines each year. At least you don’t die as a prostitute (at least the probability is a lot smaller). So obviously it is better to be a sex slave than a Chinese miner. So obviously being a sex slave isn’t the worst situation.

What clients could do to improve the condition of coerced prostitutes? Stop visiting these prostitutes and only visit the voluntary ones. That means no more money for those who exploit them, and no more incentive to force women in prostitution.

That is very difficult indeed, and I am really pessimistic. I am very aware that prostitutes are extremely good at hiding their situation. Pimps are not always visible. The pimp could sit at home watching TV while the prostitute goes to the brothel on her own and make the impression that she works voluntarily. Coercion could happen outside the view of others.

I have actually experienced such a situation. I visited a prostitute and her husband (who runs an escort agency) at their home (not to have sex by the way) to discuss these issues of how a client should see the difference. We had a very open discussion. The husband’s opinion was that you couldn’t make the distinction between forced and voluntary. The woman’s opinion was that coercion and voluntariness lie very close to each other. She herself liked sex and liked her job. 3 years later she said that her husband forced her into prostitution for 9 years!!!! You understand the strange situation?

I follow the news in the Netherlands closely and it is so striking that pimps (who use coercion and/or manipulation) still continue to place prostitutes in legal brothels. There are no signs that the problem is decreasing. The situation is really hopeless.

]]> By: Jill Brenneman http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/whats-wrong-with-the-trafficking-crusade#comment-818 Jill Brenneman Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:39:05 +0000 http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/?p=113#comment-818 Kris, The article isn't saying anything remotely akin to turning our backs to problems of prostitutes. Kris, I find your position odd. If you are that concerned about women in prostitution being slaves and being forced to work against their will, exactly what, as a client, are you doing to improve their conditions? Kris,

The article isn’t saying anything remotely akin to turning our backs to problems of prostitutes.

Kris, I find your position odd. If you are that concerned about women in prostitution being slaves and being forced to work against their will, exactly what, as a client, are you doing to improve their conditions?

]]> By: Kris http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/whats-wrong-with-the-trafficking-crusade#comment-817 Kris Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:49:17 +0000 http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/?p=113#comment-817 But shouldn't WE need worry about the position of prostitution? You are an activist who defends prostitutes. I am a client of prostitutes. I think there is a lot that needs to be improved in the sex industry. What you are essentially saying in this article is that we should have to turn our backs to the problems of prostitutes, the problems of the children in the mines are worse anyway, so lets turn to them. For instance, I looked into a forum run by prostitutes in the Netherlands, prostitutes complain that some brothels demand that the women who work in there should kiss their clients and have oral sex without condoms, these are the more wellknown brothels. Obviously these activities are far less dangerous than working in a dangerous fireworks factory. But shouldn't we as activists and clients be concerned? BTW: Have you read the book 'Slave Girl' by Sarah Forsyth? In the period ~1995-1996 she was forced to work behind the windows of Amsterdam. Her book paints a really grave picture about prostitution. She is also very negative about the clients. But shouldn’t WE need worry about the position of prostitution? You are an activist who defends prostitutes. I am a client of prostitutes. I think there is a lot that needs to be improved in the sex industry. What you are essentially saying in this article is that we should have to turn our backs to the problems of prostitutes, the problems of the children in the mines are worse anyway, so lets turn to them.

For instance, I looked into a forum run by prostitutes in the Netherlands, prostitutes complain that some brothels demand that the women who work in there should kiss their clients and have oral sex without condoms, these are the more wellknown brothels. Obviously these activities are far less dangerous than working in a dangerous fireworks factory. But shouldn’t we as activists and clients be concerned?

BTW: Have you read the book ‘Slave Girl’ by Sarah Forsyth? In the period ~1995-1996 she was forced to work behind the windows of Amsterdam. Her book paints a really grave picture about prostitution. She is also very negative about the clients.

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